In Episode 136 – Beyond the Benjamins, Kevin and Steve challenge the traditional obsession with wealth accumulation and redefine success through the lens of economic independence and personal fulfillment. The episode opens with a memorable story from Kauai—the mythical “Hawaiian Hobbit”—a man who walked away from a conventional life to live simply, intentionally, and joyfully. That encounter sets the stage for a powerful question: What are we really chasing—money, or freedom? From there, the conversation explores why fulfillment isn’t found at a destination, but in continual growth through micro-wins. Steve shares a deeply personal lesson from completing the Boston Marathon—how reaching the goal without redefining the journey led to regression instead of growth. The episode then pivots into real estate strategy, introducing the concept of the velocity of money—how real estate allows a single dollar to work in multiple places at once through leverage, appreciation, cash flow, and tax advantages. Unlike traditional investments that simply grow dollars, real estate multiplies their purchasing power. Rather than glorifying “millionaire status,” the focus shifts to income replacement—the amount of monthly cash flow needed to live life on your terms. Through conservative investing, portfolio refreshes, 1031 exchanges, and disciplined stewardship, investors can build a dynamic, adaptable plan that resists stagnation and grows with them. The episode concludes with a call to wise stewardship: letting data, numbers, and market rhythms—not emotion—guide decisions, and recognizing that the ultimate goal is freedom, peace, and legacy—not just a number in an account.
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Kevin Clayson (00:00.28)
Chapter 11 Beyond the Benjamins Pursuing Economic Independence Over Wealth Accumulation General Principle Live a life, don't merely chase a dollar. Craft your contentment. In the early 2000s I was fortunate to go spend a little more than a week on the gorgeous island of Kauai.
One day we embarked on a hike to the Hanakapi'ai Falls and came across a man I can only describe as a Hawaiian Hobbit. Think white-haired Bilbo Baggins in a mesh shirt, ragged shorts, and bare feet, and you've got a pretty accurate picture of what he looked like. This mystical shoeless Hawaiian Hobbit walked out of a bamboo forest and onto our path, and my immediate thought was, my goodness, who is this dude and is he going to murder us?
He started talking to us and turned out to be really nice. He gave us a tour of the bamboo forest in the valley a little way off the trail. Admittedly the whole time part of me was like worried this dude was leading us to his murder cave, but nonetheless. And he told us approximately how many people used to live there in that bamboo forest. He showed us cool hidden artifacts that were remnants of areas used in day to day routines of the locals, like the place where people used to grind their own coffee beans. The guy obviously knew what he was talking about. So
Once I was assured he wasn't a serial killer, I started asking him how he knew all this stuff. He said, I've lived here for 10 years. When I asked what led him to the Valley, he told us how tired he'd become of his life on the mainland. He'd worked a job and had a wife, but after getting divorced, he realized he wasn't happy with his life. So we left it all behind to live off the land. And he was so happy with that decision that he stayed in the Valley with only the occasional visit to the mainland.
He told us about his life along the Kalilao trail in the valley and how many people he'd seen come and go since moving there. Then he mentioned that at one point there was a group of people who decided to build a library and he'd become the librarian. He said they brought books and kept them in a little cave in the valley. It was like watching a myth come alive right before my eyes. This man was someone who people outside the valley weren't even certain was real. But there he was in front of me.
Kevin Clayson (02:21.37)
Content to share his story with those who passed through his chosen home. I didn't even remember his name He'll always just be Hawaii Bilbo in my head real quick bonus for the audiobook Why this story was cool is the day before we went on the hike? We'd been kayaking along the Nepali coast and we had some guides along the Nepali coast and they told us about this valley like when we when we
They of said, you know, there's a trail that goes up there. And they said, in fact, there's people that live off the land, just kind of up and down that valley. And he said, in fact, we've heard tale that there used to be so many people living in that valley. They used to have a library and there was somebody that would put books. had them in a cave. And these, these people living in the valley, living off the land would go and check books out of the cave. We thought that was such a wild story. And then the next day or day or two later,
were walking in that valley and Hawaii Bilbo is the guy who started the library was the librarian. It was insane. I didn't include that part in the book. That little bit of the story, it got cut, but I thought since, you know, we're on video and audio, I had to give you that little bonus. So we heard the myth and then we met the myth. It was awesome.
When it comes to micro winning your way to the end goal, only you can decide what that looks like. After all, everyone's journey and ultimately their desired destination is different. Maybe you want a life of luxury and material abundance. Awesome. We want that for you. Maybe you want a simpler life, living comfortably off your investments. Great. We want that for you too. Or maybe you want to go completely off the grid and donate all your worldly possessions to loved ones and charity. Cool. We also want that for you.
and just ask you to save us a spot in your bunker during any sort of zombie apocalypse. Thanks so much. Now we aren't here to tell you what you should or shouldn't dream of for yourself. Regardless of what you want, whether that's to make a name for yourself in the world, live peacefully in relative anonymity, or something in between, we're simply here to share a philosophy that we know will help you get it. Discover your own finish line.
Kevin Clayson (04:34.032)
We've stressed over and over the essence of the micro wins mindset, which is focusing on the journey rather than obsessing about the destination. Having journeyed this far, it's about time we give you some thought to reshaping our understanding of that destination. From our point of view, we don't see success as a checklist of milestones, trophies, or bank balance. Instead, success for us is about creating a lifestyle that consistently breeds fulfillment. It's as unique and personal as every individual out there.
Keep in mind, it's completely okay if your destination morphs as you advance in life. Embracing an Ongoing Odyssey Recognizing that we humans are innately dynamic beings, it's logical that our objectives will evolve over time. The true satisfaction lies within the small triumphs we experience along our journey rather than the culminating achievement. The real victory comes from the continuous effort we invest to reach our goal because we're naturally wired to grow.
Stagnation or regression is inevitable if we stop moving forward upon reaching a destination. It's akin to climbing an escalator that's heading downward. The moment you pause, you start sliding back. Steve here. Let me share an episode from my life when I learned this lesson firsthand. As mentioned before, I had set my heart on running the Boston Marathon. It was a journey filled with countless micro-winds, refining my diet, improving sleep habits, participating in various races to enhance endurance,
and get ready for the big event and maintaining a healthy lifestyle. Preparing for the marathon helped me cultivate the habit of breaking my major goals into an array of micro wins. After a decade of rigorous training, I did qualify for the marathon and completed it successfully. But then I just stopped. I halted training, becoming lenient with my diet and discarded the principles I had established while striving toward my goal.
I often say that achieving that goal is one of the worst things that happened to me because I got to the destination but didn't adjust my mindset to see beyond that singular achievement. I was focused on the score, won the game, and abruptly stopped progressing. The real growth came from training for the marathon and celebrating thousands of micro-wins along the way, not the actual race itself. As I let go of that routine, I regressed to a less fit and healthy state. Remember, humans are defined by their growth, not their destination.
Kevin Clayson (06:58.6)
This is evident when we look at individuals who despite seeming to have it all are discontented. Take the late and great Robin Williams as an example. We can't presume to understand why he chose to end his life, but it's evident that worldly achievements weren't enough to keep him here. We've seen people reach the pinnacle of success, appearing to have it all, but in reality, they are devoid of joy and fulfillment. This underlines that happiness is more than reaching a goal or even a series of them.
fulfillment isn't tied solely to accomplishments, especially considering how frequently we change our minds about what we want. In 2022, our company hit a significant milestone by securing a place on the Inc. 5000's fastest growing private companies in America list. But this recognition didn't miraculously double our business or make us overnight celebrities. We celebrated on social media, congratulated each other, and quickly got back to work. Thankfully, we'd already realized that a single achievement, however long desired,
does not define our happiness or our pursuit of it. The real triumph happens through the journey. At our company, we've cultivated a remarkable tradition. When someone scores a micro win, a successful call, or securing a property contractor, receiving cashflow or a client retiring thanks to real estate cashflow, we take a moment to celebrate it. The celebration of micro wins has become ingrained in our company's culture.
propelling us to climb higher, achieve more, and savor every success. The MicroWinds mindset has revolutionized our company, enabling us to serve more people with a greater impact than we ever imagined. It's instilled a sense of happiness and fulfillment that is genuinely indescribable. Real estate application of principle. Real estate millions do not have to be the goal, but achieving your definition of economic independence should be.
real estate progression, and active journey. The beauty of the Moneyball real estate approach is that it naturally nudges you away from inertia, urging you to optimize your return on investment. Regardless of whether your goal is modest, say owning a handful of properties outright, the dynamics of the market will keep you moving forward. By adhering to the principles discussed in this book, your investment strategy demands regular revision of your property portfolio every seven to 10 years.
Kevin Clayson (09:18.847)
This is to ensure you're capitalizing on the opportunities that the market naturally presents. Let's take an example. Suppose you own eight fully paid off properties. In the next five years, each of these properties is likely to accrue significant equity. Now, the more equity you have in a house, the lower your return on investment as the property will appreciate at a consistent rate irrespective of your initial out-of-pocket cost.
Your cash flow won't take a massive leap forward. So the overall liquid return on a property diminishes if you compare your cash returns to your equity amount. That's why it's not advisable to have too much capital tied up in a single investment for a prolonged period. From a tax perspective, you exhaust your depreciation benefits after 27 years. It's crucial therefore not to retain a rental property for longer than that duration. You need to reset that clock to continue enjoying the tax benefits.
Furthermore, the need to refurbish your portfolio is underscored by the inevitable repairs that crop up as properties age. Ownership of a property for 7 to 10 years can start eating into your profits as things break down and require replacement. If you get into the habit of trading properties every few years, you can avoid these costs. Sell those required repairs to someone who considers it a worthy investment, like a family planning their long-term residence, and acquire newer houses that have recently been updated or newly constructed.
We view this need for regular portfolio refresh as a positive feature. It acts as a built-in mechanism in the realm of real estate that guards against stagnation and regression. The concept of reaching a final destination becomes obsolete even when you believe you've hit your target. If you stay even slightly engaged, the Moneyball real estate system won't allow you to become complacent with your portfolio. This is particularly true if you want to maintain your rate of return or aim to continually expand your income replacement.
the magical multiplication of Mr. Washington. Take a $1 bill from your wallet. If you're among those who prefer going cashless, search for an image online. What does this slice of paper, actually not paper, adorned with green ink signify? Without delving into profound philosophizing about the abstract concept of money as a social construct, look, we are aiming for a straightforward response to the question, what does the dollar represent?
Kevin Clayson (11:37.685)
Our straightforward response? It's 100 pennies. More precisely, 100 pennies worth of buying or trading power. What if we proposed that this single dollar bill could buy much more than the value of 100 pennies in goods? How is that possible, you ask? The answer lies in the notion of the velocity of money, a term that refers to the frequency with which a single unit of currency, in this case, a particular $1 bill, is employed to purchase goods.
Have you ever noticed the serial number printed on a dollar bill? Every bill carries a unique identifier. Why would there be a need to distinguish individual bills? Why? Because they're used repeatedly. To exemplify the circulation of money, imagine you possess a dollar bill with the serial number L06927931H and use it to buy a cheeseburger from McDonald's. Your dollar bill
L06927931H has now bought 100 pennies worth of a cheeseburger. The said dollar bill now rests in the cash register awaiting its next use. Suppose the owner of that McDonald's uses that same dollar bill to pay for their dry cleaning service. Dollar bill L06927931H has now bought 100 pennies worth of dry cleaning service in addition to the 100 pennies worth of cheeseburger.
Once again, that dollar bill waits in a cash register, ready to be used for yet another 100 pennies worth of purchasing power. You can see the pattern here. Every time that specific bill changes hands, it buys another 100 pennies worth of goods, much more than just the initial 100 it signifies. This multiplication of purchasing power exemplifies the velocity of money. In this scenario, each person gets only 100 pennies worth out of the dollar bill, L06927931H, but
What if you could tap into the full 200 or 300 pennies worth of purchasing power? As astounding as that might sound, you can achieve this with real estate. Before we delve into the how, let's first discuss why conventional investing doesn't multiply your purchasing power, making it less ideal for achieving financial independence. Growth versus velocity.
Kevin Clayson (13:58.346)
Traditional investments such as a 401k can grow only if the dollars remain in that account for an extended period, expanding according to the market trend. Traditional investments such as 401k can grow only if dollars remain in that account for an extended period, expanding according to the market trend. Even with your employer matching your contributions and the market steadily growing, you're not multiplying a single dollar's purchasing power. You're merely increasing the quantity of dollars you possess. No matter what,
One dollar in a 401k only buys 100 pennies worth of company stock and only does so while it remains in the account. This principle also applies to IRAs and mutual funds. If you invest in the market traditionally, your dollar will always maintain a purchasing power equivalent to 100 pennies. What about gold and other precious metals? The same concept applies. While you can invest dollars that may have the potential to grow, they're not functioning in two or three places simultaneously.
They're parked in an investment that can either grow or diminish based on factors beyond your control. To multiply the purchasing power of your dollars, you need an investment vehicle that promotes growth regardless of whether those dollars remain in that vehicle or are withdrawn and invested elsewhere. This is where real estate comes into play. Velocitize your dollars. We've previously discussed how real estate provides a valuable asset with only a fraction of the investment on your part.
Courtesy of leverage. Now we're stepping it up a notch. With the Moneyball Real Estate Strategy, you can leverage those same dollars repeatedly to build your portfolio and generate increasing amounts of income. This is feasible because investment properties don't require the initial capital you invest to continually remain in the property in order to grow. The value of that property rises over time, regardless of whether your initial dollars stay in your bank of bricks or not.
With a well-timed cash out refinance, you can take those same dollars you invested in the property, which will continue to generate income and offer a return on your investment, and leverage them tax-free in another property that will also appreciate over time. The moment you purchase the second property, the purchasing power of those dollars doubles. The same dollars are now generating two sets of cash flow, two sets of appreciation, and two sets of tax benefits, all in two different properties.
Kevin Clayson (16:21.164)
Therefore, your down payment has produced two separate properties, resulting in two separate cash flows and two separate tax saving options, potentially limiting your tax liability in any given year. All of this is made possible because you dared to defy conventional financial wisdom and chose to miraculously multiply your dollar's purchasing power, all while someone else, your tenant, is repaying your borrowed dollars. Who wants to be a millionaire?
Real estate has created more millionaires in the United States than any other investment vehicle. However, remember that it has also financially devastated numerous individuals. We advocate for conservative investments to sidestep such calamities, but even single-family residential properties can bankrupt an ill-prepared investor. For this reason, we don't fixate on a culturally defined numerical benchmark like millionaire to gauge success with our strategy. Instead,
We concentrate on concepts such as income replacement or economic independence. One of our associates, Mike Chamberlain coined a phrase that aptly encapsulates our viewpoint. It's not how much you make, it's how much you keep. At the end of the day, your lifestyle isn't determined by a specific amount in the bank, property equity or mortgage loans. It's not a million dollars or any other arbitrary figure. Your lifestyle hinges on the debts you've incurred, your expenses and what you need to live comfortably and enjoy the activities you love.
The critical question for you to ask yourself is how to attain economic independence? What does that entail for you? From our observation, when people envision becoming a millionaire, they're really dreaming of freedom. Freedom to cover their expenses, live comfortably, reserve money for unforeseen circumstances, and engage in activities that bring them happiness. We all presume millionaires can afford to do these things, hence the aspiration to become one.
However, our genuine goal is to regain control over our financial futures, to live and enjoy life on our own terms. What we truly desire is economic independence. We don't want to succumb to a governmental or economic system that dictates our worth and prescribes our lifestyle. We yearn to liberate ourselves from the tyranny of money and breathe a sigh of relief and peace. To this we say,
Kevin Clayson (18:37.442)
Rejoice! You don't need to be a millionaire to achieve economic independence. The magic figure you're probably seeking is income replacement. Our method of stacking micro-wins with Moneyball Real Estate can guide you there. Destination Economic Independence Achieving economic independence can be likened to running a marathon. Expanding your portfolio one property at a time requires pacing and discipline. You must resist the urge to spend your cash flow as soon as those monthly checks start rolling in.
If you acquire a property and squander the income immediately, it's akin to exhausting all of your energy at the start of the marathon. When you near retirement, you may not have enough endurance, example money and resources, to cross the finish line. But if you purchase a house and funnel the cash flow toward repaying the additional principal, amassing equity to eventually transform one property into two, it's equivalent to pacing yourself and conserving energy in the early stages of the marathon, ensuring you have what you need further down the road.
While we primarily focus on the income replacement aspect of our strategy, it's not unusual to grow well beyond this point. This isn't just an income replacement retirement plan. It's a reliable method for accruing wealth over time. If you exercise discipline in your income and expenditures and regularly rejuvenate and manage your portfolio to maximize returns, you'll accumulate wealth in the long run. You'll probably achieve millionaire status sooner than you expect.
However, you choose to define it. The first step is determining your income replacement figure. How much do you need monthly to maintain your desired lifestyle? Once you've figured this out, you can estimate how many properties, leveraged, paid off, or a mixture are required to reach that number. Then purchase that first property and gradually build up. Think of it as mall mapping. Where's your starting point, your destination, and what are the microwind steps that will propel you from A to B?
Income replacement needn't be a convoluted journey. It can be as straightforward as a marathon where you're aware of the starting and finish lines, your pace, energy, leverage, the cashflow you accumulate and how you utilize that to energize yourself and your plan will change and fluctuate based on your circumstances. You'll reach your goal step by step, accumulating and celebrating micro ones along the way, as long as you devise a plan and adhere to it. With Moneyball Real Estate,
Kevin Clayson (21:01.647)
When you purchase one property, that property appreciates in equity, generates cash flow, hedges against inflation, and grows based on its total value, not merely the amount you've invested if you're leveraging. Over time, that property accrues substantial value that you could sell utilizing a 1031 exchange, as we discussed in principle eight, enabling you to convert one property into two. Repeat this process until you have the number of properties necessary for your desired income.
then allocate that income toward paying off the properties. And before you know it, your income will be replaced. Side note for the audio and video, there's another strategy that we teach called buy, borrow and beyond, which once you acquire enough real estate and you have enough equity that's growing over time, you can use refinance provisions and be able to pull money out of your property, totally tax free that you're actually living on while letting somebody else fund your portfolio. It's awesome. Stick in our world and we'll teach you all about it.
Selling real estate. We've already suggested the best time to purchase real estate. That's today. Take action now. We've also touched on refreshing portfolios and the concept of 1031 exchanges. The question you're likely pondering now is when is the right time to sell? We leave this decision up to the numbers. As there's no mystical crystal ball to predict the perfect selling time, we scrutinize the numbers until they signal that it's time to make a move.
At Dunferu Real Estate, we equip our clients with an annual game plan review report. This document is crucial in helping them determine when it's an opportune time to sell. We have an entire research team dedicated to pulling comparables on our clients' properties, analyzing the national and local economies of each property, examining refinance and sales scenarios, and much more. The team invests significant effort to ensure our clients can make informed, data-driven decisions about when to expand their portfolios.
If you're managing this process independently, here's some key factors to consider. What is your equity position? Do you have sufficient equity to utilize the profit from a sale to convert one property into two via leveraging? What is the age of the house? How long have you owned it? How much depreciation remains on the property? What is the status of the property's appreciation? When were key components like the roof, HVAC, windows, plumbing, water heater, or electrical systems last replaced? Are these nearing their lifespan's end?
Kevin Clayson (23:29.337)
What is the current interest rate? Is it an advantageous time to sell or would refinancing for a lower rate be beneficial? What are the current market conditions? Is it a good time to sell? Is the market experiencing consistent growth? How is inflation expected to look in three to six months? Are there anticipated changes to local laws? What about federal legislative changes? What's the opportunity cost of holding onto the property? These questions are just a glimpse of what we contemplate and what you should be considering.
The responses provide a strong indication of whether it's an ideal time for you to sell and potentially pursue newer or recently updated properties. The key is to have the intent to sell. Even though you might not know exactly when you'll part with the particular property, you should enter the deal aware that you will eventually sell it if that's your plan. It's about aligning each move with the broader long-term strategy, even if the timing of those steps can vary.
We've often suggested five to seven years as our hold period, occasionally even seven to 10 years. However, these are general parameters and should be taken as flexible guides. It's challenging to specify a definitive condition or time for selling as real estate is primarily influenced by factors beyond our control. The best approach is to keep an eye on the market or work with experts who do this on your behalf and adapt quickly to changes. Rigidity and timing can lead to poor decisions in real estate.
So avoid viewing these general timeframes as inflexible rules. Each market is unique, so be prepared to adjust your portfolio when the right opportunity surfaces. So when is the best time to sell? It depends. Should you sell? It depends. What should you do with your portfolio? It depends. As elusive as these answers may seem, there's a certain elegance in allowing market conditions to guide your decisions and letting the numbers steer your strategy.
You don't have to endure the stress of making these decisions alone, the way. Collaborate with an expert who understands the market's cyclical nature. Just like the ocean, the market has its rhythms. It ebbs and flows, rises and falls. It's akin to surfing. If you fight the waves, you'll inevitably fall. But if you harness the power of the waves and use the market as your ally, it can greatly assist you in executing your long-term plan. Embrace wise stewardship.
Kevin Clayson (25:56.013)
Understanding the dynamics of money, be it in real estate or any other arena, is essential in making informed decisions that pave your journey to economic independence and the achievement of your financial goals. Real estate investment has stood the test of time, forming the backbone of wealth generation from the dawn of American history and likely even before. The foundations of this country were laid by landowners and entrepreneurs.
Consequently, the rules, regulations and tax codes have been designed to favor property owners and business innovators. This has been a constant throughout history and continues to be true today. The system inherently benefits those who engage in the business of real estate investing. However, understanding the system is crucial or at the least working with individuals who do. Embracing the role of a business owner entails the responsibility to act as a prudent steward of your funds.
You aim to make optimal decisions, which is why we strive to equip you with a knowledge based approach, circumventing emotionally driven decisions that often come into play in real estate. This is the cornerstone of seizing control of your destiny and achieving economic independence. It could even lead to income replacement, one property at a time. Chapter conclusion. Throughout this chapter, we navigated the nuanced world of real estate investing, likened the journey to a marathon where in discipline,
pacing and an informed strategy to find success. From the power of portfolio equity to the magic of 1031 exchanges and expanding your portfolio, we explored various facets that can propel you past income replacement goals to create long-term wealth. The complexity of selling real estate was also unpacked, highlighting that it's not about rigid timelines, but careful analysis of diverse market conditions and property specific factors. Here, working with experts becomes an invaluable asset.
providing data-driven insights that empower decision-making. We concluded this chapter underscoring the necessity of wise stewardship. The tax benefits, the investor-friendly system, and the inherent advantages of real estate are all designed to reward those who understand them or collaborate with those who do. Making informed and strategic decisions is, thus, the key to unlocking your path to economic independence, even replacing your income, one property at a time.
Kevin Clayson (28:15.745)
Writing the market waves, adapting to their rhythm, and allowing the numbers to guide you are integral parts of this journey. As we prepare to turn the page on the final chapter, we want to set the stage for what is perhaps the most crucial aspect of this entire journey. Generational Impact. This last chapter encapsulates the essence of our discourse, focusing not just on individual wealth creation, but on how this prosperity can resonate across generations.
The choices you make today in real estate investment have the potential to shape the financial destiny of your lineage. So as we approach this pivotal discussion, remember that your journey is not just about you. It's about creating a legacy that stands the test of time, ensuring your hard earned wealth becomes a cornerstone for generations to come. Chapter 11, ideas summary. In your real estate investment journey,
It's vital to remember that the ultimate goal isn't just monetary wealth. What truly matters is achieving economic independence and personal fulfillment, creating a life that resonates with you, your values, and desires. Acknowledge that your objectives are not static. They will change and grow as you do. The joy and satisfaction in this journey lie in the continuous effort to grow and adapt rather than merely reaching a final destination. Shift your focus from
chasing a culturally defined financial milestone like becoming a millionaire to seeking economic independence. What defines your comfortable lifestyle isn't a specific bank figure, but the ability to live according to your needs and pleasures. Understand the ways real estate can multiply your financial growth over time. Learn to be a wise steward of your assets, knowing when and how to make strategic decisions. Realize that the core of most financial aspirations is the yearning for freedom and control over your financial life. Embrace this perspective.
to find true contentment and make strategic decisions that align with your authentic desires. Chapter 11, Micro-wins. Defining Economic Independence. Have you determined what economic independence means for you? Understanding and defining this concept is a micro-win, aligning your investment strategy with your unique lifestyle goals. Utilizing expert tools. Successfully employing tools like 1031 exchanges to grow your portfolio is a micro-win that brings you closer to your economic independence.
Kevin Clayson (30:36.482)
Focusing on freedom. Shifting focus from chasing an arbitrary financial milestone to seeking genuine freedom and control over your financial life is a transformative micro win. Implementing wise stewardship. Understanding the importance of wise stewardship and applying it to your investment decisions counts as a micro win, putting you on a path to long-term economic independence.